Undercover Youth Pastors

Think before you Post...

2007-04-23T10:37:00.000-06:00

Celebrate this, the world shared some wisdom and remember where wisdom comes from!

HT to Ryan over at UthPastor. Ryan is the founder of www.pastor2youth.com. He is a good egg, even if he is a Presbyterian! LOL.

Well... moving right along.

2007-02-01T20:19:00.000-07:00

Yeah, yeah, haven't posted here in a while, don't hate me for that please.

My life is changing focus a bit. I will post more on this in the future.

Why people leave....

2006-08-12T10:07:00.000-06:00

Recently a friend of mine left our church and became the pastor of Open Door Baptist Church about 20 minutes away. He left on good grounds and I really think that God took him there. However, in our church he has about 15 relatives. Recently we've all been noticing that they're not at church on Sunday nights or Wednesday nights. We found out it's because they're all going over to my friend's new church. They said at the very beginning they were not going to go over there. The people at the new church requested that no one follow my friend over there and give him a year to get settled in. However, they are going and are now talking about joining. [The truth is, my friend doesn't want them to join because he thinks they won't recognize him as "pastor". Which, the family doesn't even recognize my pastor (their brother/uncle/etc.) as pastor.] I know it's hard when someone you love goes to another church or state or country. But is it the right reason to change churches? I was always told that the right reason to leave is if wrong doctrine is taught. They've been talking for several years on leaving, but haven't. I personally think they are using this as a way to get out of the church, but that's just me. (By the way... one person who's following him and missing 2 out of 3 weekly services is a deacon in our church and another is our Sunday school superintendant and 4 of them are choir members.) If they leave, they leave. Our church will not suffer because of their absence. God will give us new people, I know. So.... question... why do people leave? Is it right to leave to "help" someone in their new ministry?

Would you or wouldn't you?

2006-06-15T13:33:00.000-06:00

I came across some people having a discussion the other day. They were talking about a church in Arkansas whose pastor is openly gay. This church takes the position that "gay is OK", for lack of a better way to put it. (Click here to see the church's website.) Obviously, this is an affront to what Scripture teaches, but that's not what they were discussing.

These people were discussing whether or not they would go and minister in that church. (Either preaching or music ministry.) What say ye?

2006-05-31T21:57:00.000-06:00

Yeah, it's been around, but, man, it just makes me hope I never make a mistake like that one...

Catholicism

2006-05-16T12:26:00.000-06:00

Last week on visitation I witnessed to several Catholics. At the end of our 2 hour visitation I ended up debating a Catholic guy for just over an hour, thus making visitation 3 hours that day (oh, no!). The conversation began with me asking if the guy (who's a youth director at a Catholic church) if he knew for sure if he was going to heaven. He said no and that no one could know. I asked him if I could show him a verse and he said sure. I took him to 1st John 5:13 and emphasized the "know" (just like how you know your name) and "have" (present tense). The guy seemed kind of awestruck for a second. Then, as most debates.. er... uh... conversations do, he changed the subject a few times, but we always made it back to salvation and the surity of it. I asked him how long forever, eternal, and everlasting were and he agreed they were forever, eternal and everlasting. Then I asked him, if 1st John 5:13 says saved people HAVE eternal life, how can you stop something that's eternal? Anyway.... the teen that was with me said that the conversation sounded like a Kent Hovind debate (www.drdino.com). I stumped the guy numerous times by continually going to the Bible (which, he said was God's inspired Word, but doesn't give us everything we need for living), but I couldn't convince him (not that you can when first talking to someone).
My question is this: What are the best verses or best way to convince a Catholic that their belief in salvation is wrong? Do you break their trust in the church first? Do you just give them continual verses on the subjects discussed like I did (which he admitted later caused him to doubt some)? What are your experiences?

2006-05-16T12:12:00.000-06:00

Sometimes, the world gets it better than the christians get it...

Thanks be to the Lord Above!

2006-05-08T21:34:00.000-06:00

The angels are having a party tonight. I had the privelege of leading my son to the Lord while my wife led my daughter. My son got saved first at 9:03 and then my daughter at 9:08. Thank God we aren't super strict with their bed times!

Performance Pleasing

2006-05-05T15:46:00.000-06:00

How do we please God? Have you ever thought about that question? I mean I have heard all kinds of sermons on and read a lot of thoughts on it, but really it is a question that should echol in the heads of every christian, shouldn't it?

I have a lot more thoughts on it, but I will mull them over a bit before I post them.

I can't blog

2006-05-04T08:11:00.000-06:00

Well... Here goes. I've never blogged before. I might have once when I set up my first Myspace account (have I mentioned how much I hate Myspace now?). Now, I've pondered and pondered what to blog about. I could go anywhere from parents wondering how their teens got so worldly (and it's because the parents are a worldly influence) to a trustee in the church talking bad about you to literally everyone in the church. But... MAN... you guys sound so intelligent when you talk about things. You are my heroes. I'll blog another blog in a while. I think the parent and trustee statement I previously made is starting to turn some wheels. :)

Too much or not enough?

2006-05-01T15:21:00.000-06:00

I was talking with friend of mine today, and the subject of revival meetings came up. (His church was in the middle of one.) I asked him if it was just Sunday-Wednesday or if they were going the entire week. He replied that it was Sunday-Wednesday, and then he asked me this question: "Does anyone do a whole week of revival anymore?"

His question got me to thinking. Most revivals that I've been in during my lifetime have been of the Sunday-Wednesday (or Wednesday-Sunday) variety. Yet, years ago, revival meetings typically went at least a week- and often longer than that. Why the change? It seems to me that it takes a few days of meetings for people to begin to open their hearts to the Lord as they should, but by then the meeting is over. Do we think that we have made sufficient "progress" as churches and as Christians that we can just schedule a 2-3 days of extra services just to say that we had a "revival"? Or, could it be that we are trying to fit God into our schedule instead of the other way around?

The point of my little rant is that we don't give God time to work these days. We give him a little window of time now and then, and if lives aren't changed then we just go back to the same old routine. Where has "true revival" gone?

How separated should we be?

2006-04-25T09:35:00.000-06:00

I know of a IFB church that, each year, brings in one or two Southern Baptist evangelists to preach revival meetings. I'm not just talking about picking a SB evangelist at random- they bring in the same 2 men each year. These men are conservative, King-James-Bible evangelists who preach God's Word straight and true.

Many IFB's, as soon as they see the term "Southern Baptist", would immediately scream "HERETICS!" and talk about how awful this church was for even THINKING of associating with someone who was a Southern Baptist. They wouldn't even stop to consider that the message they preach, the Bible they use, and the standards this church and these evangelists hold are almost identical to their own. This raises the question: How separated should we be?

Don't get me wrong- I am in no way in favor of the ecumenical movement. There can be no ecclesiastical fellowship with those who do not hold to the same doctrines and- in most cases- Scripture that we do. However, what about those who do hold to the same doctrines and Scripture as us? Should we deny fellowship to them simply because of what they call themselves? What should be the standard of separation- our doctrine or the fact that they're not exactly like us?

Dying Churches

2006-04-24T08:54:00.000-06:00

I was in an IFB church this past week. A friend was preaching there. I was saddened. Of the 45 or so people that were there I could count on one hand (maybe a few fingers of a second) the number of people in the congregation under 55.

I don't want to minimize these folks and say that their days of serving the Lord are over, because I believe that is wrong also, but until there is a huge shake up in that church and some major pain that will come with it, it will continue to be a dying church.

This church has the "blessing/cursing" of being located near a large IFB college. The blessing portion is that the Pastor has all the young-on-fire-for-the-Lord-preacher-boys that he could ask for to help with his ministry. The curse is that he has all the young-on-fire-for-the-Lord-preacher-boys the he could ask for to help with his ministry. I am sure you could understand the benefits of this, but you are probably asking, why is it a bad thing or a cursing?

From my observations I saw:

Much desire from the IFB preacher boys for evangelism and doctrinal purity.
Much desire from the pastor to reach young people.
Much resentment of the IFB preacher boys from some of the people in the church.
A lack of "engagement" from the IFB preacher boys in the life of the people of the church. They were there to do a job, please don't get in the way with your problems, questions, or issues, thankyouverymuch!
"Restart" sydrome... from the preacher boys... sorry it's [summer/christmas/thanksgiving] your on your own try to maintain what "we've" put together.
"Hired-Guns" effect. Why should we go out on visitation? Isn't that why we have these "kids" here?

There were other things I observed too, but I just couldn't help but be sorrowful of the fact that unless things changed drastically that this church would be dead in 15 years. It brought about the reflection that change is painful much of the time, but that pain is necessary for growth. In my own spiritual life I see that pain is necessary for growth much of the time and that sometimes I have to lose that which seems important before I can move ahead.

Would you like fries with that?

2006-04-19T07:49:00.000-06:00

A few days ago, I had the opportunity to have lunch with a friend of mine. As we sat there enjoying the various types of food the Chinese buffet had to offer, we happened to get on the topic of telemarketers and salespeople. This led into a conversation about soul-winning. (Don't ask me exactly how it led to soul-winning. You'd just have to understand how we think. LOL)

People in America today are almost conditioned to "tune out" salespeople. I mean, really- when was the last time that you actually listened to a telemarketer and took them seriously? Now, think about how many people present the Gospel when soul-winning. It's almost like they are trying to sell the person something, which often causes the person to unconsciously slip into their "anti-salesperson" mode. When that happens, we've lost their attention and the opportunity to share the Gospel. This is why that, as I'm doing door-to-door soul-winning, my first goal is to just get a copy of John & Romans into their hand ("Hey, our church has a free gift for everyone in the neighborhood.") and invite them to visit with us at church. I do try to start a conversation with them, but I don't want to appear pushy. The Lord will open up doors to actually share the Gospel with people, but we must be discerning to see those open doors. Yes, the Gospel is vitally important, but if they tune me out because I sound like a salesperson, then what good am I really doing?

I think it would be good for every Christian to evaluate how they're sharing the Gospel with others and see how well their methods are working. We want our witness to be effective and fall on receptive ears, don't we?

Those BIBLE perverters...

2006-04-14T16:44:00.000-06:00

You know, here's the real problem with those BIBLE CORRECTERS on the other side:

I received an email from Pastor2Youth.com's Ryan Nielsen, it was one of the many emails from various youth websites I receive periodically. It was about his "logo contest" and how he was re clarifying the rules. Now Ryan is a pretty nice guy, so he was kind about it. But I decided to do as any good IFB and convert it to King James English, Ryan thought it was amusing and asked about posting it to his site. I said sure, since getting ANY King James English out to the masses is good. So as I went over to www.pastor2youth.com and read the front page, I noticed my letter, but it had been CORRECTED and EDITED!!!

Please note here is the letter as originally inspired in the KJEnglish:

TRANSLATION IN KING JAMES ENGLISH:

Whereas ye have submitith many submissions of dubios content and boorish character, and whereas, thine submissions SUCK...

The LORD hath said, "He who submiteth such lascivious trash, shall heretofor be cast into the eternal file of deletion which shall be deleted forever and ever... AMen.

He who submiteth grand and glorious creations to the pleasure of the creator of pastor2youth.com and his representatives, yea, some would say angels, shall be judged and those who excel shall be rewarded forever and ever, or at least until the next PDYM conference.

Amen...

And here is that HERETIC (once removed) Ryan's version:

This creative "addendum" to the change in rules for the winner selection in the Pastor2youth Logo competition was given to me by a friend - UndercoverYP. Thanks UndercoverYP. Words to live by!!!!!!

TRANSLATION IN KING JAMES ENGLISH:

Whereas ye have submitith many submissions of dubios content and boorish character, and whereas, thine submissions SIP...

The LORD hath said, "He who submiteth such lascivious trash, shall heretofor be cast into the eternal file of deletion which shall be deleted forever and ever... AMEN.

He who submiteth grand and glorious creations to the pleasure of the creator of pastor2youth.com and his representatives, yea, some would say angels, shall be judged and those who excel shall be rewarded forever and ever, or at least until the next PDYM conference.

Amen...

Please note, I posted the WHOLE of his letter unchanged... but that's because I am not a heretic...

Please note: For all those who have no sense of humor or are too sanctified to read this, this is called sarcasm... No I don't believe Ryan is a heretic, severely misguided, yes, but no heretic...

More on them thar' eggs...

2006-04-14T12:56:00.000-06:00

A friend of mine said this:

When the Easter bunny preaches your morning sermon, THEN we'll talk about problems.

Bwahaha... picturing it now... he would look a little like Jack Hyles!

Walt Mueller hits it on the head...

2006-04-14T12:41:00.000-06:00

Ok, so I have to admit, the whole "emergent church" thing gets me stoked up sometimes. Error is error, whether it's IFB error or "EC" error. And I hate the whole "worship" trend today... Worship defined as, "It was good, because I enjoyed it!" Well, "HOP" (ooohhh, there is that pagan easter bunny influence again...) over to Walts blog. (It's here.) and read his blog dated April 5.

Here is a quote from the article:

Like the unfolding divine drama, our service unfolds with beauty and deep meaning, from our prayers, to our recitations of creeds, to the preparatory quiet of our sanctuary, to our use of the great hymns of the faith, to our confessions, to our sung responses, to our celebration of the Lord’s Supper, to the primacy of the Word, so forth and so on. In the midst of the quiet and the tradition, God speaks loudly to me. When he speaks, it is with a depth that challenges me and forces me to go deeper with Him and His Word. At times, my emotions are moved. At other times, they’re not. If the familiar components of our service that I encounter week after week become dull and boring, I take full blame. Each of those components are there because I – in my humanness, need to be reminded of who I am, who God is, what I believe, and what He’s done for me. If I’m focusing on that, I can’t help but be moved. Perhaps the biggest worship mistake I’m prone to fall into is the mistake of believing that when I arrive and take my seat, it’s time for me to be entertained. That’s not what corporate worship is. Rather, I’m the performer and God’s the audience. Worship that gets that right is the only kind of corporate worship that can be described after the fact as “good.” All too often, I hear adults and kids in their after-worship commentary say things like, “That worship was awesome!” Okay, but what do you mean by that. When I ask clarifying questions about what made worship great I’ve heard everything from “It made me feel good” to “I loved the music” to “It didn’t bore me” to “I think the smoke machine was awesome.” Somehow the emphasis on “me” and “I” leaves the impression that we believe worship is for us. That’s wrong. Again, we’re the performers and God is the audience. That’s what it means to live life to the glory of God. Not only that, I think we’ve reduced our definition and understanding of worship to the one hour that we sing together each week. But the Scriptures make it clear that the most important type of worship should take place during every one of the other 167 hours in our week. If you don’t believe me, just read the minor prophets!

More Easter egg stuff.............

2006-04-14T10:50:00.000-06:00

Well, if having an Easter egg hunt for the kids makes one a Godless heathen, then I'm glad to know that our church won't be alone in that category. We've had one every year for as long as I can remember. It's actually a great way to get little kids in (both from the bus ministry and otherwise) and teach them the Gospel. If the Easter egg hunt was the WHOLE focus, then I might have a problem. But, in reality, it's a harmless method that we can use to reach as many people as possible. Makes me wonder sometimes if IFB's are often afraid to use their imaginations when it comes to ways of sharing the Gospel and reaching out to people for Christ.

Upon Hunting Eggs...

2006-04-13T22:51:00.000-06:00

So this Sunday, we are having an easter egg hunt. Godless heathens? or Seeker Sensitive? hmmm, not really concerned about it either way... It WON'T please someone, but we hope to please God. And little bus kids coming to hear the Word and get some candy eggs, well perhaps that will please God.

Another "Blog We Dig"...

2006-04-13T13:15:00.000-06:00

This is the blog of Ryan Nieslen... he's a presbyterian, but we love him anyways, just cause he loves God and teens. Go Ryan... w00t!

http://uthpastor.typepad.com

A "Blog We Dig"

2006-04-12T23:19:00.000-06:00

Fundamentally Reformed is a blog that I found while looking for other IFB blogs. I placed it in our "Blogs We Dig". I should bring up at this point that just cause we dig a blog doesn't mean we agree with everything it says. It just means it's worthy of reading.

This is the Blog of Bob Hayton. If you want to read an interesting post about his falling away from IFBism, check this out. It's a long read, but very well written and it compells and hurts me in many ways.

Read this bit of Bob's story and ask yourself if it rings true:

I basically had to write off my whole life as being part of a movement I believe to be seriously flawed. We had to look at our friends and realize that most if not all of them will simply write us off as liberal compromisers and cease any fellowship with us. We would completely understand, since we have been there ourselves before—ready to separate from people at the drop of a hat. From our perspective now, we long to have continued fellowship with our friends—fellowship based on the glorious gospel of Christ. We can charitably agree to disagree on what are minor issues in light of the hugely unifying truths we hold in common—the authority of and inerrancy of the Bible, the substitutionary atonement of Christ, justification by grace thru faith alone….

Racism in the Ranks.

2006-04-12T20:49:00.000-06:00

Aside from the typical rhetoric you hear about BJU and their dating philosophies, I must admit that I see an awful lot of racism in the Independent Fundamental Baptist churches. I constantly hear things like, "What the black community needs is a good BLACK fundamental preacher.", or perhaps "We are just too different than the black community to reach them.", sometimes it even extends into the "No, we aren't racist, we have "xx" black people that attend our church.".

Unfortunately, it's many pastors and evangelist that perpetuate this backsided racism telling jokes about "colored's" or even preaching their version of racism from the pulpits. Racism is racism, regardless of who perpetuates it, it just seems acceptable in many fundmental circles. When there is a black preacher who is and Independent Fundamental Baptist, we parade them around on the circuit. Plus you are almost condemned to a life of urban service if you want to be an IFB BLACK preacher or even more rare, an IFB missionary.

The old saying goes that Sunday morning's are the most segregated time in America. I don't know the validity of it, but I can understand the basis of it. Granted there are many churches and pastors who really could care less the color of skin of those in the congregation, but if we are honest, ask yourself how many times your pastor has visited those black visitors homes like he did those white visitors.

In my church we have many Hispanic folks, and a few black people, but you can still hear and feel the twinges of racism occasionally. Are we that different? I have told people (and I sincerely mean this) I don't care what color of skin my daughter marries as long as his heart beats for Jesus. Of course that didn't bode well with many of my IFB compatriots.

It's intersting how often they use Old Testament Bible verses out of context to support their hidden racism. ("We aren't racist, we just believe people should stick to their own kind, it's hard on the children") Basic Hermeneutics are thrown out in order to bend the word to their desire. The same thing that they decry that the evangelicals, catholics, protestants and the like are doing.

The Old Testament illustrates a simple truth there are Believers and Unbelievers. They should not intermingle. When God wrote to the Jews there were two classes of people. Jews and Gentiles. As much as it hurts the white mans pride, we are as much a gentile as any black man. So we either have to accept that the truth that God was revealing was about Believers/Unbelievers or we have to bend the text to our own desires.

I really get a kick out of those who swear that Number 12:1 refers to Zipporah. Yeah, I get the whole idea that the word that is interpreted as "Ethiopian" is the word for "Cushite", but ironically the same word (kuwshiyth) is used in this verse too: Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. Ironic that most of the racist IFB's start questioning the text and interpretation at this point. Look she was black, I think it's pretty evident and besides Spurgeon is on my side!

Read this from his Morning and Evening devotions:

"He had married an Ethiopian woman."
--Numbers 12:1

Strange choice of Moses, but how much more strange the choice of Him who is a prophet like unto Moses, and greater than he! Our Lord, who is fair as the lily, has entered into marriage union with one who confesses herself to be black, because the sun has looked upon her. It is the wonder of angels that the love of Jesus should be set upon poor, lost, guilty men. Each believer must, when filled with a sense of Jesus' love, be also overwhelmed with astonishment that such love should be lavished on an object so utterly unworthy of it. Knowing as we do our secret guiltiness, unfaithfulness, and black-heartedness, we are dissolved in grateful admiration of the matchless freeness and sovereignty of grace. Jesus must have found the cause of His love in His own heart, He could not have found it in us, for it is not there. Even since our conversion we have been black, though grace has made us comely. Holy Rutherford said of himself what we must each subscribe to--"His relation to me is, that I am sick, and He is the Physician of whom I stand in need. Alas! how often I play fast and loose with Christ! He bindeth, I loose; He buildeth, I cast down; I quarrel with Christ, and He agreeth with me twenty times a day!" Most tender and faithful Husband of our souls, pursue Thy gracious work of conforming us to Thine image, till Thou shalt present even us poor Ethiops unto Thyself, without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing. Moses met with opposition because of his marriage, and both himself and his spouse were the subjects of an evil eye. Can we wonder if this vain world opposes Jesus and His spouse, and especially when great sinners are converted? for this is ever the Pharisee's ground of objection, "This man receiveth sinners." Still is the old cause of quarrel revived, "Because he had married an Ethiopian woman."

So rant on there IFB pastor, but know this, your day is numbered, your hatred is revealed.

Why the secrecy?

2006-04-12T11:36:00.000-06:00

So you may be asking, why the need to be secret about your identities? Wouldn't it be more honest to state who you are and be accountable for your words?

We have thought about this much. We want to be able to speak openly about problems in the church and sometimes as illustrations we will use our personal experiences. It is no different than an evangelist who preaches about that "old drunk codger" who interupted his service and then got saved, etc. We are trying to spare the "old drunk codger" who is known to SOMEBODY by a name. The second reason is that honesty is not looked upon well by many people, and many church folks are the same way.

What we don't want to do is to just turn this into a "complaint" session. Yes you will see some complaints, but the purpose will be for healing, learning and edification. Discussion needs to happen on some issues that the IFB church faces and that Youth pastors face also.

Testing................

2006-04-12T08:20:00.001-06:00

This is just a test to see if my Blogger account was set up correctly.

First Post

2006-04-11T15:44:00.000-06:00

This is the first post of the UCYP site.